Mr Lavery

Before I state my problem, I want to commend you on a very necessary project you are doing!

Years ago I had some horses and ponies....now I have a Hackney mare I would like to show at Louisville next year. She is only 27 yr. old but I have her leading good and eating sugar out of my hand!

My two questions to you are....Can I wait to cut her tail until a couple days before the show? I hate to change sets!

The most important question......When should I start hooking her to drive?

Waiting for your reply.

Dudley Abbott

Thank you so much for your question. It seems you have made great progress with your pony over the last 27 years. I assume you took to heart my advice about not rushing the training program, . I am truly amazed to hear she still has enough teeth to eat sugar from your hand.

As you know, teaching them to lead correctly is an invaluable part of training and after all those years, I am certain she leads the best. I would not rush into cutting the tail. The way I see it, by the time you get her broke to drive, she'll be in her early 50's and by then maybe they will have outlawed tail cutting and Louisville might be called The PETA International. One good thing, by that time I am certain, Rich, Jimmy, Rodney, Larry and Darrel will be retired leaving only Gib as the one to beat. I would love to see a picture of your wonderful filly. Do you have any Tin Types?

Thanks once again for your question, Good Luck and Good Napping!

LF Lavery.

Readers....This of course was not serious. This "Question" came from an old friend of mine, very old! Beside being one of the founding members of the United Professional Horseman's Association, Dudley trained some of greatest horses and ponies of the 60's and 70's. The great World's Champions Bellisima and Ambition being only two of many. Additionally, and now it is confession time, I am not a genius who came up with the ASK THE TRAINER concept. It was in fact, Mr Abbott who first suggested it many years ago. So long ago, in fact, it was decided it would not work well on the telegraph. So it had been on the shelf until Mr Gore invented the Internet and now the rest is history. I feel proud to tell you about Dudley and to give you this sample of his humor. He is truly one of a kind and a great friend of the horse industry.

Thanks for everything Dudley.

Hello and thanks for your time............ We have a small farm in Eastern Ct. Recently we purchased yearling colt by a Five Minutes 'Til Midnight............ could you please give me the pro's and con's to gelding him. We have an Arab Stallion that we show for a friend who has perfect manners. Is that the primary reason to geld, or does it have also impact growth, resale value, manners etc...... We hope he will be a Fine Harness prospect next year........... Thanks very much for your time.

Thank you so much for your question. To geld or not to geld has been an agonizing question for countless owners for ages. It is a tough nut to crack to make the best decision for your situation. It might be an easier one if the procedure was reversible but unfortunately, it remains about as permanent as you can get and even in the Thoroughbred business, not many geldings get syndicated.

To begin, the procedure itself is a relatively simple one (at least from our point of view) It takes only a few minutes and after care includes cold water, cleanliness and exercise.

Secondly, the word "YES" will pretty much answer your question,

• Yes, it can have an impact on growth.
• Yes, resale of a stallion who is not an exceptional individual for breeding has a much more limited market.
• Yes, it is a given that a gelding should have better manners. Although a stallion, handled correctly, can be just as mannered.

Unlike many other breeds that leave most any horse "whole", the American Saddlebred breeders have always reserved the position of stallion for superior individuals who posses exceptional qualities such as outstanding conformation, extreme athleticism, show horse attitude and impeccable bloodlines. As "keepers" of the breed, they realized long ago that the act of using an inferior stallion had a huge negative impact on the breed. Even though these breeders tried to be so very careful, of the thousands of breeding stallions since the beginning of the breed, only about 100 had a significant enough impact to be well remembered today as great breeding stallions.

This decision is, of course, entirely up to you. My advice, do all you can do to make the circumstances conducive to him being a two year old Fine Harness champ. Gelding is not a mandatory step but it is a very positive step in that direction.

Thank you once again for your question. I hope I have given you some insight and been of some help. I look forward to reading "the rest of the story" in the Guest Book. Good Luck,

LF Lavery

Hello, I have a 9 year old morgan gelding, he is the most willing, wonderful horse. I show him AM HUS and Road Hack and Ladies, so as you can see he rev up and quite down nicely. He does quite well. However he has an issue that I can't seem to correct, and would love some advice. When he gets nervous, at home, on trails, or at the shows, he straightens his knees, for a more dressage look and flips his toes up. This is in the walk and some times in the trot. He's in top physical condition. Could use a little more lift in the frount. We show in a pelham, train in a slow twist full cheek snaffle. My trainer and farrier have played with different things, heel weights, helps some, but not if he's really hot; have him stop drop his head and relax(this can't be done in the show ring). I've tried shortening his stride at the walk, almost to a hesitating crawl,(works but not so good in show ring), he goes great when relaxed, but here's the ? I need him a little hot in the ring to get the lift that seems to be required in the Morgan Breed shows lately, he stays light in the bridle, folds over nicely, never pulls, does tend to have a higher headset then some Morgan HUS, but as I said does quite well. How do I correct the walk? This where I seem to be losing a lot of placings, because althou many have said they love his regal walk, it doesn't blend well in the ring. Any suggestions, shoeing to try? different bit?

Thanks

Thank you very much for your question. I happened to be thumbing through the dictionary the other day and found a picture of your horse next to the word versatile. He sounds like quite a horse to be competitive in those varied divisions. You are very lucky to have him. From your E-mail it seems you already know the solution, just get him to relax. But then you have tried that. I was surprised to hear he was a Morgan as the only breed I know of that does a German "Goose" step are the Dutch Warmbloods. Not having the advantage of seeing him perform his "strut" ,I will say that aside from shoeing, the usual cause for this type of gate is when the horse is leaning, heavily in the bridle thus giving him balance to do this. You have said, however, he is light in the bridle. If this is not something new, that he has just started to do, thus pretty much ruling out soundness, the next place we should look is shoeing. Below please find some homework that may help you better understand what you are dealing with.

http://askthetraineronline.com/08JanApr.html#PitchedFoot

http://askthetraineronline.com/08JulyAug.html#pitching

http://askthetraineronline.com/08JulyAug.html#shortstep

Ordinarily, most horses cannot do this if they are flexed and supple in the bridle thus assuring the head is not too high. You, apparently have a horse that can. If his head is set and he is light in the bridle he then has to be too slow coming off the ground in front thus making him reach farther to support his front end. From your excellent description I assume that when his foot returns to the ground he is clearly landing on his heels. Usually, I would suggest raising his angle and rolling the toe of his shoe to speed him up and shorten his stride. Generally most horses respond to the basic shoeing rules but then again some horses enjoy the complete opposite. (As I have said many times, the Iron Clad rule about shoeing is there is no Iron Clad rule.). Changes, such as angles, should not be drastic but rather in stages. If you have tried the lead in the heel, why not try it in the toe. This is the time to utilize an important member of your support team. Have your farrier analyze the horse's gait and call on him to use his experience to remedy the situation. I have met very few farriers who do not enjoy such a challenge.

As a personal aside, I do not think the walk you describe would in any way offend me as a judge. Additionally, if this is the only issue you have with this wonderful horse, I would not worry myself to death with it. Hell, you might even add another division for Mr. Versatile, Dressage.

I hope I have been of some help or at least given you a new prospective for dealing with this issue. I hope to read of your progress in the Guest Book. I wish you Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery

(The following has been heavily edited by LFL but is an honest representation of the original E-Mail)

Dear askthetraineronline.com,

I'm writing not because I have a training question but more of a career question. I'm at a point in my life I need to decide whether i need to continue working horses or I need to do something different. I have a barn in the central KY area that I work horses at. I also work for another horse trainer in the area. I'm going broke running my own barn through lack of horses and customers that don't want to pay their bills. My other job has consisted of keeping a recovering friend of bill in business and making sure he had horse to show when he got out of rehab. I love him like a brother but this job hasn't been very beneficial for me. I have consistently turned out horses that he is winning with as well as other trainers. I've done this my entire adult life. I've worked as assistant for several of the country’s top trainers. I love the smell of fresh sawdust the dew on the grass and the times a young horse really turns loose of a bridle and truely understands what your asking of them. It seems I'm having to completley reindroduce myself to this industry.

As to my skills and education i have a bs degree from the university of missouri in animal science. also attended stephens college and got college credit thru the equestrian science department.I've done all my learner judging for my little "r" My life background is in agriculture, particularily horses and cattle.. After a couple of years I went to work for a top trainer in Florida she said I was going to do something that i probably wouldnt like but would be good for me and that was teach riding lessons. She was right but it was good experience. After a couple of years there I had a job lined up with art simmons but wasn't really pschyed about going back to missouri. I stopped in kentucky and went to work Mr Bradshaw . One of the things that he impressed upon me was that if you can start colts get them gaited you'll always have a job it might not be the job you want but you'll have a job. I've always had a job. After Mr Bradshaw passed away, I worked for several top Ky trainers. .In the early 90's I packed up and moved to Virginia to train at leatherwood. I had horse like leatherwood starlight leather encore leatherwood starman I sold smith lilly his 1st good walk trot horse starmonius I had a very nice juvenile gaited horse bueno day who was like 2nd at louisville in the youngest division with an extremely bad rider. Not to sound pretensious but in the time I was there I had more successfull horses than any since. After leatherwood came to an end I went to another sttable and had several very successfull show horse tyhere in a very tough situation. . in 2000 i had an opportunity to go on my own and i went. the initial stock i had really wasn't the quality to show on the ky circuit so i ended up finding out of state buyers for them I think in the winter of 2000 a big Ky trainer called and asked if i'd come give him a hand I was short on horses so I said yes not to mention that it was only 5 minutes away. That kind of brings us up to date. I've helped this trainer off on on for the last 7 years. I've been laid off a time or too because of them being short on horses. Recently he tells me that he can't afford to keep me since he's got another assistant working their now. I swore i would never go back. Over the years I have developed many grand winning horses and have received no credit for them. I used to think that getting credit for these things wasn't a big deal because I was more interested in going to the bank but when your not doing either it really makes you wonder what the whole purpose was Staying in kentucky isn't crucial but is desired. No trainer has ever hindered me but they’ve never really helped me either which is fine its not their job to promote their assistants As of right now i'm fishing for a decent client.

you are more than welcome to use all or part of this email on your web site. i would only ask that names not be used. I would also like to thank you lonnie for taking the time to listen please advise do I need to remain an anoymous behind the scene player like I have been which my other job has forced me to take. Do i venture out on a private job again or do i struggle month to month with silly people with bad horse.

Breathlessly waiting for your answer.

Thank you so much for your question and allowing me to post it. As you see most of the "names have been changed or omitted to protect the innocent". Although I am much more at home advising about horse training..I'll take a stab at advising a horse trainer. After 48 years as a professional trainer, nearly 40 running a public stable, I am no stranger to many of the "issues" you mention. As the tip of the day eludes, I, too, had a few clients that felt no need to pay their bill "regularly" so I understand the concept of "chicken or feathers". Unlike most jobs, where you go to work each day, put in your 8 hours, (need an hour for lunch) check on your health insurance policy to see if you have to pay more than $1.00 for your new medication, have the opportunity to bitch about having to work 3 hours on Saturday morning even though it is time and a half for overtime, can enjoy the two week paid vacation, check on your pension and IRA and stock options, may have a company car and an expense account and expect a raise or a bonus every year.... these "civilians" will never have the opportunity to "smell the fresh sawdust the dew on the grass and the times a young horse really turns loose of a bridle and truly understands what your asking of them." So what if they are making a good living!!!!! You went to college, I went to college, we must have spent much more time in philosophy than psychology or business administration as we both ended up smelling manure.

Seriously, your letter hits where I have lived. I know exactly how you feel as I have been there and done that. In this business, you are only as good as the horses you have to train and only as good as your last good horse. That is sad but true. The key to getting these nicer horses is to gain the respect of good clients who are willing to trust you to select the right horse for them and guide them to fun and success in the show ring. The truth is.. without a good client, getting a good horse is pure luck. Note I did not mention that a good client has to be Bill Gates rich! It would be nice, of course, but one willing to trust you as above will do very nicely!

How do you get a good client? I never tried "fishing" for one and somehow was lucky enough to have some of the finest clients and friends one could dream of. You're judged by the "public" by your demeanor and professionalism, how your horses are turned out at the show, how you relate to your clients, how your stable area is kept, how you work your horses and how they look when working, how much success you and your clients have in the ring, how "user" friendly you appear. I have always felt that good horsemanship and hard work will get you a long way in this business. If you are short in the horsemanship department, hard work, managerial skills, and a personality for great client relations will also take you far. Putting all of these together was the recipe for the 10-15 most successful public stables in the history of this business.

As far as your education and experience go, you are certainly equipped to do other things. However, your experiences and the great people you have been fortunate enough to have been associated with ( names have been edited ) not to mention the time you have invested make me think it would be a shame to switch careers now. The timing right now is difficult with winter coming on and the economy in such a state. But you mention some options.

First, let me assure you that you are not anonymous! Even though it is sometimes hard to receive no credit for things you have done, your fellow horse trainers know and they are keeping a kind of score of you. They know exactly where you stand, can appreciate things like loyalty, how hard you work, what your accomplishments are as well as where your weaknesses may lie. Although they may be your competitors, if you have earned their respect, they can also be your lifeline. After all, they have been there and done that too!

We have been through the downside of operating a public stable... but be honest, there are many good things as well. A lot can be said about being your own boss. As far as the "credit" goes, you get every bit of it.... good and bad!

Private jobs are wonderful but few and far between. Finding one where the "fit" is perfect and the relationship is satisfying for both parties as well as long lasting is even harder. I know of only one trainer who has been able to find them consistently over the last 30 years, he is the King of private jobs!

The right assistant trainer position can be very good job. Not to mention the usual good points, I always enjoyed calling someone to tell them "they" were out of hay, or "they" needed to pay the help, or "their" pump was broken.

Let's face it, nothing I say will be of any real help to you. The decision falls on your shoulders. Several things are obvious to me. You love the horse business and want to stay in it and you have hit a very low point in your career. If attitude is everything in a horse it is doubly true in a horse trainer. Right now you need to find a positive one. Things can only get better.

Once again, thanks for your letter. I wish I could have been of more help. I wish you Good Luck.

LF Lavery

P. S. I encourage any readers who have some advice for this gentleman to post it in the Guest Book.

Good morning Mr. Lavery -

Just wanted to touch base with you and let you know that I am very interested in having you do a farm call to check out my mare and my new gelding that my bleeding heart "just had to save" from an amish broker lot through AC4H.

Until you are able to come out though, I do have a question that hopefully you can help me with. This gelding is a peach to work with on the ground - you really couldn't ask for a better ground-mannered horse. But, when it comes to lining, lunging, riding it's a different story. His issue, no matter which we're doing - if he thinks he should be done for the day, he will stop and REFUSE to move. It used to be a "visual" thing if he could see me, he'd stop, so I put him in a half-blinker hood in the lines, slowly weaned him out of it, and now we can line "happily" about 95% of the time...no freezing, responds to cluck = forward, etc. Lunging he just doesn't understand - it's like he comes to the end of the line, forgets to turn his head and body and runs through the rail of the ring...seriously. I'm taking him over to my friend's who has a solid-wall roundpen to see if that might help him catch on. Undersaddle, he'll be fine for a few minutes -

we'll walk a few laps, start trotting a little, change direction and then he locks up. I've tried clucking incessantly, kicking as hard as I can (no spurs), having someone lead him to help him walk out of his "stuck" and as soon as they drop back he won't move anymore, had a groundperson try and whip him forward, carried a whip myself and tapped him on the butt and shoulder, all to no avail. He won't move forward - he will fly backwards. Never up (thank goodness) but back as hard and as fast as he can go. The only thing I know of left to try is to ride with spurs, but I don't really see it helping. Neither my barn manager, who used to ride/train saddlebreds, nor I have ever had a horse lock up this badly - normally a crack on the @$$ and they're scooting forward. Not this guy, he could care less. I'm too optimistic a person to believe he's just a "bad horse."

Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks,

These two questions, coincidentally, arrived on the same day and are virtually the same issue....

Hello There!

Ok, first thing i found you on google and after reading darn near every Q & A on your site, i think i have found every answer to every question i might ever have had or will have in the future.... except for one. Here it goes.

I have a beautiful 2 year old huntseat filly, APHA, PtHA and soon to be JC. She is half thoroughbred and is 15.2 and strings to 16.2. I purchased her 2 years ago when she was 5 months old, for the past 2 years she has been an absolute doll. Quick learner, never really a pissy horse and alwasy tried and tried until she understood. {she's a farily consistant showmanship horse already} Last summer I started longing her lightly about once a week and a few months later she all of a sudden firmly told me NO, and put her nose out and took off ripping the longeline out of my hands. I grabbed her back afer she quit running around like a crazy person. She continued to do this behavior all winter thru this past spring. I was not strong enough to hold on to her to at least keep her in my hands so my finance' had to quickly learn to longe a horse {he's into horse power but its in a car haha}. He learned, he held on and she respected him enough to not pull him too bad. I had a wild hair and put a chain on her over he nose, and BAM she instantly respected it and I have had no problems ever since...couldnt believe it!

Anyways, My current problem. I started lightly riding her about 4 weeks ago. I have done all the ground work, longing, driving, tying her head and softening her mouth. she took it all like a champ. Her first 2 weeks under saddle went terriffic! Than last week I was working her and asked her to trot, she went about 1 lap fine than slammed on her breaks so fast and pinned her ears back. She was pissed and that was that. yup she's a balker..if I have a pet peve when it comes to horses its Balkers and biters. She is now a balker. I can deal with the pullers, runners, kickers and pushovers. I only ride her every other day for no more than 10 mins and that is more than she feels is nessecary. I rode her this morning {attemped to} she started off fine than put on those breaks again. No matter what i do I cannot even get her to take one step forward, sideways or even backwards. Im at the end of my rope, out of ideas and confused! When I ask her to move forward she pins her ears, kicks out, stomps her feet, spins her head around trying to bite my leg. She even backed herself to the fence today, kicked out and scared herself to death. I bought this filly for my next huntseat show prospect...so far not so good. Any thoughts? =)

Thanks!

Thank you, both for your questions. Although you are dealing with two different disciplines, the effects of balking or propping are the same no matter where you go, that is, if you could get your horse to go somewhere! Actually we are technically dealing with two behaviors. Balking, where your horse can't get started on the journey and propping, where he just makes a very abrupt end to the journey. ( the latter can be really exciting when they do this while running ) For the sake of clarity I will refer to the first horse as Mr. Rescue and the second as Kitty.

As with all contrary issues, we must go down the list. Could this issue be associated with a Physical problem? 99% of the time, this behavior is caused by some discomfort the horse is experiencing. Dental problems, ill fitting equipment, soreness of the back or limbs, soreness in the feet etc. all can cause this behavior. You must rule out these and any other conditions before you can correct. Both of you, who know your horses much better than I, must analyze your horses concerning this. As in the case of Mr. Rescue, crashing through the fence and working better with blinkers on would certainly lead me to believe there might be a vision problem. I would love to hear how he handled the solid wall Bull pen.

Secondly, could this be a behavioral problem (They are doing this because they want to and can get away with it) I think to some extent this is evident in both cases with Kitty especially. Your fiancee's firm correction changed a bad behavior that you ( only because of your stature ) had allowed her to get away with and become good at. Firm correction worked on Kitty but did not seem to have any effect on Mr. Rescue.

Lastly, could this behavior be associated with a lack of or improper training. Because of her young age we will give Kitty a pass but we certainly can pin some of the blame on Mr. Rescue. By your description, this horse is practiced at this behavior and although many of the conditions above may still apply as an excuse, it would seem to me he has been pulling these tricks long before you got him. As I have said many times, "Horses are beasts of habit" and they can learn bad habits sometimes much quicker than good ones. Who ever's hands he has been in, in the past, the proper training foundation has either been lost or was never taught. For intents and purposes he is a spoiled horse and will be difficult to rehabilitate.

Both of you have been doing most of the correct things to improve your problems. Once you have ruled out the things mentioned in the "soundness" paragraph, there is nothing wrong with a little physical encouragement, spurs, crops etc. Since you have tried most everything I would recommend, I can offer only this tip. Once you are stalled... when there is no forward movement available....just turn their head as far to the left or right as physically possible....they will move , if only a step or two....relax...repeat and build on these steps with little fanfare or correction. This will work if you are patient.

I also am enclosing a bit of homework for you that will explain some other psychology of dealing with this behavior.

We have a lot of Whoa..but no Go

I hope I may have been of some help to you and I look forward to reading of your progress in the Guest Book. Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery

Understand from your web site that you are on the road and I thought I might see you during the fair. Did you make Louisville this year?

Hope all is going well on your end. I just wanted you to know that thanks to your helpful suggestions and words of wisdom I have made progress with my project horse. I showed him at Burlington, Ky. in a sixteen horse country pleasure class which he won and just returned from Indianapolis where he was first and third. I must say that I am quite proud of the fellow considering he did not know how to canter or wear a full bridle in May. I know he will never be a great one but how can you not just love a horse that thinks he is wonderful?

Okay. I have a new project. This is one is a five gaited model who is very, very GAME. The problem is he knows how to do all the tricks – trot, canter, slow gait and rack but he can not transition from one to another without a major production. He never walks or even considers walking. I know he comes by this naturally from his parents (Top Spool x Swept Away). He is a replica of Swept Away in a pony version that no child would want to ever ride! The longer you go the gamer he gets. He thinks it his job to grab hold of the bridle and get to one end of the barn to the other end just as fast as he can and whoa is just out of the question. If you try to ask him to slow down he is very insulted. Any suggestions on getting his thought pattern organized and channeling all this ambition? I have been turning him out by night and trail riding him in a German Martingale and just trying to get him to relax but I don’t feel like I am making any progress. He can cover the trails in record time. HELP! He has a cheerful disposition and as happy as a clam in Sea World but he just gets so overwhelmed and can not seem to transition without getting all nervous and anticipating what is going to happen next. When he does have it all together he is as cute as he can be. Most would say that he is fine to show and think I should show off his exciting out of control ways but quite frankly I don’t want him to be known as the little renegade running around the show ring with a rider that has little or no control over her steed. He is now five years old and I have had him exactly one year and he may be the project that last a lifetime. Suggestions?

Thank you for your E-mail. I hope you are as proud of yourself as I am of you. It is great when your hard work and dedication pays off as it has with your Country Pleasure horse. I say Bravo, it was no easy task as I recall (A DIY Fixer Upper) Now, your newest DYI project sounds like it could be very nice. I love the way he is bred and he sure sounds exciting! As these are extremely difficult issues to deal with, not only may he be the project of a lifetime, he might well be a lifetime project! I was wondering, do you pick your horses by the number of problems they have? It is a novel approach! Let's talk about it.

Knowing what kind of a horseman you are, I am sure you have searched for anything that could possibly contribute to his excitement by making him uncomfortable, such as teeth, soundness, sore back etc. Ruling those things out, we are left with a deficit somewhere in his previous training. As you have already and so astutely identified, to correct this behavior you need to get this horse to relax. As you have already found out, much easier said than done.

Not surprisingly to me, you have already tried techniques that usually are the prescribed procedures for correcting this issue. Turning out at night, trail riding are usual recommendations along with suspending grain, riding in a halter and backing to supple and correct. Full blinkers, shackles, walking in the cart /stone sled, round out the "mechanical" options. No horse that is tight in his bridle can relax and it is imperative the horse learns to walk on a loose rein if you wish to accomplish what you wish. I can see no "one" way to deal with this issue but it may take a mixture of the tools mentioned above and anything you can think of to achieve this first but most important step. Below is some "Home Work" that, even though it deals mostly with canter issues, it should help you in your quest.

I wish I could be of more help but I will keep thinking about it. Thanks once again and congratulations on your CP success. Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery

http://askthetraineronline.com/08JulyAug.html#tacky http://www.askthetraineronline.com/08May.html#DerbyWinner http://askthetraineronline.com/08JanApr.html#CPLeap

Dear Lonnie,

Here 's the background: My rescue mare got loose a few weeks ago, and ran like a crazy horse because the lunge rope was trailing behind her and scaring her to death. She had the sense to come back to the me at the front of the barn, and thankfully did not get hit in the road, which of course she took a few strides in on the hard pavement. This was totally my fault as I was paying attention to a cat that was getting near my work area and somehow just let the lunge rope slip through my hand. She did not run at first, but got scared by the lunge rope that was trailing behind her.

Anyway, after calming her down and giving her a Vetrolin warm bath, wrapping her and hand walking her until she was dry and cooled out, she came up very lame on the right hind leg about 40 mins after her excessively speedy romp. The only thing that I found was a slight swelling at the end of the cannon bone, just above the fetlock joint, mostly on the sides and to the rear. She is not tender to touch but could not weight bear that evening initially.

I ran to the house and called my vet and began an ice pack and track wrap immediately. My vet gave her IV bute and dexamethasone, and said to ice for the next 48 hours and keep her wrapped. We were to keep her on bute until the paste syringe was done twice daily and then assess. By the next day she was fine, but swelling remained. My farrier came out and reset her as she had a front shoe off and she was breaking up her front foot badly due to the dry ground. He thought that she would be fine as well. She went off her grain for a week and half, and then came up sore as soon as I stopped her bute due to the no eating. I called the vet and he took two films. They were, "absolutely normal". He concluded that she was just bruised or sprained and this was all soft tissue, which I am inclined to agree, but there a lot of important structures at this part of the leg. We had to stop the bute, as she stopped eating her grain totally for several days, and was only eating a little hay and dry pasture grass. We got her back on her grain slowly by adding a tad bit of applesauce and she is now eating fine again off bute

Since the first 48 hours of icing, I have kept her wrapped and have cold hosed her once a day and used more of warm poultice once a day with Epsom salts in a menthol salve and track wraps with a thin quilt on daily until I went to Louisville on Thursday to Sunday. While I was gone we left her on pasture/stall rest and no wrap, as I was afraid to leave it on that long and my sister did not feel comfortable placing it, even though she is an absolute angel for all of her care. On my return Sunday morning, she is walking well, wants to trot out of the barn at time of turnout and only slightly short striding. She has however, a non-tender swelling. When comparing legs, the right one feels mushy compared to her tight left fetlock.

Here's the questions: How worried should I be, what would you do next, ultrasound? Wrap? Cold or Heat? Poultice? Second opinion? I have suspended all circle work, no lining or lunging and of course no riding. I had just gotten back on her and did some walking under saddle, for the first time a few days before this whole incident, since she had taken so long to build up her hind end from her starvation and other leg issues which now seem totally fine. My farrier and I believe that she previously had sore suspensories from being on the road. These were treated conservatively with rest, liniment and slow, progressive hand walking and light exercise over two years. I also have a recipe from Karen Medicus (DeLovely) who got it from Tom Moore to use as a poultice with no wraps. ( if you ever want it, I will send it) It has DMSO, mineral ice, potter's clay and Epsom salts basically in it. I have never used DMSO and am not sure I would without careful instructions.

I know you are on a cross country trip right now and will reply when you have time. We can wait. I do not have the money until the 30th anyway to go to a different vet and get additional testing or treatment.

Thanks for your question. I feel compelled to also thank you for the incredible detail of the situation that you have supplied and, as always, a tip of the hat to you and those like you who are involved with the American Saddlebred Rescue program, one of the finest organizations going. It seems, however, you feel your mare needs to be rescued again, this time from you or the cat! Seriously, accidents can and will happen to anyone dealing with horses. It simply goes with the territory. That said, let's see how much trouble you are really in.

Your initial or "first aid"response was absolutely on target and I feel responsible for keeping the effects of this injury to a minimum. Cold is exactly the way to go at that time. I cannot stress enough how important the first hour is with an injury such as this. Determining the extent of the injury by palpating the site, which you did, is the next step. From your description, that should have been the time for you to breath the big sigh of relief and mull over the need for the vet as either a precaution or a necessity. It sounds to me like you needed him more than your mare! Nonetheless, Bute , or another NSAID, is the drug of choice to deal with swelling and to curb any pain. Incidentally, as far as digestion and appetite go, there are new NSAID'S without the side effects of Bute now available.

Also,as you have already discovered, heat is now your new best friend when dealing with the swelling. Epsom Salts has near "miracle drug" status with me and anyone who has a horse will learn to "worship" it as I do. Although I do not think it necessary, Tom Moore's "poltice" would be wonderful at this juncture as, although it seems odd, the bandage on that leg is actually cause of the "mushiness" you describe.

Not seeing the mare in person, but taking into account your vet's explanation of the X-rays, your farrier's thoughts (you are very lucky to have him as I feel he is one of the best) and, of course, giving much credence to your assessment of the situation, I think you have very little to worry about. The fact is, swellings such as this can materialize very rapidly yet take months to disappear. Prudent but regular exercise is the next step. Making the blood move will decrease the swelling. Working in a circle, never the best thing for a horse is, as you knew, not even an option at this time. Get back in the saddle and help her walk her way to excellence.

Because you have, as a true horseman, done all the correct things it is my opinion your vet can take care of other people's more pressing problems. With the money you save, perhaps you can buy a longer lunge line or maybe a dog to chase that damn cat away. I hope I have been of some help to you thanks again for our question. I look forward to reading of her healing progress in the Guest Book. Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery

Hi Lonnie!

Back a couple of months ago, I sent you an e-mail with a couple of questions about my new 3 year old American Saddlebred that liked to play chicken with other horses and kept spooking (I think that was the other one! He has so many problems!). I recently went to the World's Championships to visit (my horse isn't ready for that, might never be!) but I was supposed to ask someone about a bit and completely forgot. I decided I'd ask you, I know you're good, you gave me a lesson a couple times when I was like fifteen! My horse is no longer spooking as much, but now we have a new task to take on. For the last couple of months, we have been working him in a full bridle since we started showing in the Country Pleasure division. He has not taken a liking to it at all. I will supply a picture of his headset in the last small show he was ridden in, so you can see what I mean. But the picture isn't even the worst he was. We began to tie his tounge after discovering that he was playing with his bit, but he still doesn't want to tuck his head in. He will bring it up but he won't set it properly, even with my trainer on him. He has glorious moments, but he won't stay consistent. We recently switched to a different type of curb bit that is jointed in the middle, kind of like a snaffle. He has started to set his head a little more and he doesn't fuss with his head and throw it, but he still doesn't react to it the way we want him to. My trainer wants to put him back in a normal curb with a port, but she doesn't know what to use. She said she's out of ideas. So my question is, what would you do? What type of curb would you use? Hopefully you can answer soon, we have two shows coming up in the middle of September!

P.S. In the picture, please excuse my awful straight arms and the fact he would not pick up his feet. And that is another quick question. My horse has great motion at the barn (if you push him), but even with all the pushing in the world at shows, he won't move forward and get the action we prefer. Any ideas for me as a rider? THANKS!

Thank you so much for your question. Of course I remember your previous one. (http://askthetraineronline.com/08JanApr.html#Circles)

It is not unusual for new issues to pop up as older ones are corrected. The pictures you have sent (not available here) pretty much tell the story. Your horse would definitely be in danger of drowning if you rode him in a rain storm! But seriously, I am certain you will be able to deal with this issue as you learned from one of the most talented and wonderful riding instructors, Ms Spoonster. As I also note in the pictures, your equitation form is still perfect and this will help you immensely. Here are some "Homework" assignments that will explain much about the curb bit:

http://askthetraineronline.com/08JanApr.html#Loudmouth

http://askthetraineronline.com/08JanApr.html#ToFullBridle

The photos definitely show a horse that is afraid of the curb bit. Your written description of his behavior confirms this. The fact he is somewhat better in the "broken" (less severe) bit attests as well. I am certain you would not even think of asking me this question if his dental work was not up to date so let's go on from there.

As you read in the homework, he must wear the snaffle bridle perfectly before one should even consider the curb. As for the "first" curb, I am partial to an Army port short shank, slip shank but it is truly up to the individual.

The most important factor is to make certain the bit in no way hurts or "scares" the horse. This is where the Seal-Tex comes in. Additionally, much thought should be given to position of the bit in the mouth. He must feel comfortable enough to go to the bit (without lugging or pulling) and feel secure with it. This accomplished, with the help of a running martingale on the snaffle rein and a good seat that allows for very quiet and gentle hands, the rest of the process should be quite easy. Until this stage is reached, however, do not expect extravagant motion etc. A horse must bridle comfortably to display that.

Thanks for your question, it was good to hear from you again. I hope this is of some help to you. I look forward to reading of your progress in the Guest Book. Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery

i have a three year old saddlebred that i have owned since she was 2. i have showed her three times under saddle and she has done quite well. i would like to teach her to drive but i was wondering, if i teach her to drive will it affect the way she rides?? i like trying new things and i think driving would be a good change but i dont want to harm my horse in any way by starting her to drive. Also she is currently in training so i would not be doing this alone.

What do you reccomend?

Thanks so much for your question. As with human athletes in training, a varied program is accepted as the benchmark for success with equines as well. The act of jogging in the cart is excellent for developing different muscle groups than can be developed with just riding, great for a horse's complete conditioning including wind, is a great tool for freshening a horse's mouth and acts to divert the boredom of riding every day thus freshening the horse. Properly executed, training a horse to cart is a relatively easy procedure. (My personal preference is to use a collar and sled to start.) It is good that you have a trainer, however, as this is no time for mistakes. Have plenty of qualified help the first few times. Soon, it will become second nature for her. When I had 40 horses in training, we seldom rode many over twice a week and jogged most all the time so I firmly believe this a excellent step for your filly.

Thank you again for your question I hope to hear of your success in the Guest Book.

LF Lavery

Thank you for your question. You are absolutely correct about the horse not running you over. It is a behavior that needs to be corrected immediately. Depending on the particular discipline, the horse should either follow behind or stay in line with you on your right side. The quickest and easiest way to accomplish this is with the use of a lead shank. The shank is composed of a 4-6 foot leather strap attached to a 12-20 inch chain with snap. This devise was created for just such problems. The chain should run through the left side of the halter, over the nose and through the right side and then "snapped." When the horse moves "through" the space you feel is his and into yours, a sharp jerk and then release on the shank will encourage him to return to his space. You are not punishing, you are correcting but you must be firm and make him respect your wishes. An extremely short time of this correction will solve your problem. Be firm, diligent, and remember to reward him when he performs correctly.

Thank you again. I hope to read of your progress in the Guest Book.

LF Lavery