Mr. Lavery,

I am sorry for this novel with random bits and pieces. I am a young professional and have purchased (nov./dec. - we've been taking our time with this) a wonderful (then 3) now junior gaited filly. She is very well rounded for a four year old. Very square trot, easily canters, and slow gaits/racks smoothly......as long as you don't touch the left side of her mouth....hehe

At the trot, canter, and walk, she is fine. Beautiful flexion, serpentines and circles well. She jogs with her head straight, rounds her turns properly, etc. Both sides of the mouth soft and supple, no trouble. Backs readily.

And then there's the slow gait and rack...ahh yes that lovely smooth gait she excels at - sort of. She stays square and under herself, but if you try to help balance her when needed- just light touches here and there - her left side is T-O-U-G-H. Not unbearable but heavy quick jerks are involved. I like them soft and supple ( I rode with Smith Lilly, Lewis Eckard and Claude Shiflet as a child/young adult - light hands...) where the wiggle of the pinky is all I need. My left arm has gained 2" of muscle from this lovely little stinker. Her right side is wonderful. It is much more noticeable first way, when trying to keep her head straight in turns (steadying with the right, gently playing with the left to get her over with her head straight, with left leg back behind to push, right leg slightly forward to brace)and keeping her on the rail.

I have had her in a full cheek - smooth, slow twist, thick fast twist, waterford ball bit (a few rides or so a piece of every combination so I can notice a difference), Half cheek -smooth, slow, twist, backwards mule, 3 piece, and a smooth, fishback, and thick twisted bar bit (i was trying for lateral flexion). Bit burr, tongue tied/not tied nothing. Draw rein, running martingale, , no martingale , nightingale - just kidding. Every bit was tried with every bridle setup. Glycerine/bit juice - no softer. I've took her out on trails (relaxing), to a show to practice, sweet talked, yelled at her so loud she cowered - no change.We serpentine at the slow gait, we circle to the left - to no avail. I have very light hands, no tugging and the KICKER - She RACKS FINE IN A JOG CART!!! She will serpentine, let you help her, everything you'd like..

Can you tell it's driving me nuts?

She's vetted clean, had the vet out repeatedly to check for caps, sharp spots.

Shoes are nice and light, even weight all around, with 4oz. of lead in the toe behind. Toes are 4 1/2" in front, 5" behind. 50 degrees up front, 48 behind (not sure if it matters, but there you go).

She was gaited by a very respectable barn in IN familiar with her bloodlines.

Could the person who gaited her just toughened up that side that bad - only for the rack and not the trot? It's like a darn light switch it happens so fast! But only at a rack? She's pretty slick, but this is a new one! It makes sense, but now what?!?

Thank you for your very detailed yet very puzzling letter. She sounds like a wonderful filly. With a foundation from the great trainers you mentioned it is easy to see what a good horseman you should be and by your in depth analysis of your mare's behavior, it is easy to see that you are. You answered the additional questions I asked you (they do not appear here) with the same detail thus ruling out what I believed to be a soundness problem with her left side. Until then, I was certain a lateral, mechanical problem was the culprit. You have done everything I would have suggested or done myself with a few exceptions.

I would call the previous trainer and compare notes. Two heads can be better than one and you each know the filly well. Trainers want horses they sell to be as successful, as does the new trainer. Together you might discover something.

The issue you describe cannot be a behavioral problem. The reaction has to be due to discomfort. In spite of what the vet said, I would check her tongue and cheeks and teeth as I described in a January letter titled "She keeps saying no". I feel it has to be there. She is at the age for caps which can change daily. I had a horse do something very similar 30 years ago and finally found a broken off and hidden Wolf tooth to be the problem.

I'm sorry I can't think of anything else to suggest to you. Because of your great detailed description, I don't even feel seeing the behavior would be of help to me.

I would very much appreciate hearing the "Rest of the Story" as time goes on as you really have me stumped. Thanks again, Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery

Dear Lonnie: Two weeks ago my newly purchased liver chestnut Arabian gelding (9 years, 15.2hh) arrived and my trainer has been doing a great job bringing him along the gelding had a 9 months of no exercise at his prior home. He's registered, mostly Crabbet lines with a Spanish [Goes to: Abu Farwa, Rabiyas, Nasik , Gulastra (2 times), * Nasik (4 times), has 4 lines to the Davenport Hamrah, the Spanish mare *Sacudida, Spanish sires Gandhy, Van-Dick – 2 times(actually Polish) and Sceanderich. Her dam’s granddam was Ghazel, a desertbred mare imported to Spain; the sire goes 5 times to the stallion Congo , at least 3 times to Gandhy, 3 times to Malvito. He goes to desert bred mare Farja I in tail female; the dam's tail line: 3 lines to *Fadl, 3 to *Raseyn. 1 to *Witez II, *Nasr (2 lines)].

So if you don't mind, I have 2 questions, -- 1) what's the difference (from a judging perspective) as to "arabian sport horse gelding in hand" and just plain "arabian gelding in hand" and could a 9 year old compete in the 2 and over class -- is age a disadvantage in the judge's eye? Since our new guys is just getting his memory back that he's a working horse, I thought perhaps a little try at this category might be fun. My second question is about Arabian costume: What advice do you have for me and how important is it to learn side saddle for this class (is it a big advantage to ride side saddle in terms of what the judge values?) Thank you so much for any advice.

Thank you so much for your question. I see by the breeding on your horse that he should be quite handsome and may have relatives that knew Osama. He is bred to be of good size but a crooked front leg is sometimes an issue coming from his "tail" line. If he is straight legged, he should be an excellent candidate for in hand classes.

Starting with the costume class, I do believe that many Judges give more weight to a lady who is not riding astride than to one who is, however, the emphasis in this class is on the horse's performance and conformation and the authenticity and detail of the horse and rider's costume. A lady riding astride is not penalized, simply not given extra credit. The side saddle discipline is very beautiful when done correctly but it is also extremely difficult to master. (Many years ago, Bob Mannix had a rider who won the Saddle Seat "Good Hands" class at the "Garden" riding side saddle with a posting trot)

As far as a nine year old gelding being at a disadvantage, there is a difference between an old horse and a mature one. If he is in show condition and does not show his age, I think he would be at no disadvantage.

The main differences between an Arabian in hand and an Arabian Sport horse in hand are the criteria they are judged on and the way they are shown.

The Arabian is presented to the judge at a walk and then a trot and is judged upon type, conformation, suitability, quality, movement, substance, manners and presence. (in order of importance)

The Arabian Sport horse is shown in a pattern called the Triangle. Here the criteria deal with the possible discipline the horse might perform, Dressage, Hunter or Jumper and how it's conformation and movement would apply. Movement at the walk and trot counting 40% Conformation 40%, 10% for Expression and manners and 10% for Balance and suitability as a Sport Horse. This is all scored with a scribe and with a point system.

I hope this has answered some of your questions and I look forward to reading of your show ring success in my Guest Book. Thank you again for your questions. Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery

Dear Mr. Lavery,

Thank you for answering my "Grazing Rights" question. I have another question about my 12 yo SBR mare. Saturday the trainer asked an experienced rider to work on her canter. It didn't go that well so an even more experienced rider gave it a try, still not so good. They took her outside to a bigger arena. Shannon starts her canter ok but falls out or switches leads. The riders kept trying until she refused to go forward and kept backing up and trying to turn toward the gate. They worked more and more trying to get her to go forward which she did for a few yards and then started backing and turning toward the gate again. When the more experienced rider got back on she started to kick up. Shannon won that round and the rider dismounted. I'm not sure what happened after that as I had to go into the barn and when I returned she was being ridden at a walk by yet another experienced rider. How should that have been handled? Shannon was not a happy camper but I don't think she was physically hurting. How should that have been handled? Did they work her too long? Did they ask too much?

Yesterday I rode her around the grounds for a while and then in the outdoor arena. She tried that backing up turning back toward the gate with me. We struggled a few minutes and I just sat there and let her look at the gate. Husband came inside and walked in front of horse and horse followed. We did that a couple of times and then I rode away from husband and he returned to out side of fence. He says I baby that horse. Every day there is a new experience for me.

Thank you for your question. Well, we've certainly come a long way from the romantic interludes with you and your husband as he led you around on Shannon. Unfortunately, no matter how well you have described this incident, I was not there in your trainer's boots watching exactly what was transpiring, so it would be impossible for me to make a judgement call on this specific situation or how it should have been handled. I will, however, speak to what usually is "S.O.P."

At this point, the canter is secondary. The "backing up and refusing to go forward" is the important issue. As with nearly all improper equine behaviors, we can look to three conditions: 1. Soundness or conformation, 2. A "flawed" training foundation, 3. A behavioral issue.

My guess would be number 3 in this situation. A good trainer always wants to end a training session on a positive note. Many times there isn't one and we go longer and farther hoping to find one. Sometimes too long and too far as it seems in this situation. Your mare obviously was as frustrated as the many riders and was probably tired as well. Your mare "balked" and backed up because she could. This was her form of defense and revolt. While I can understand why she did it, this behavior is unacceptable and if not corrected will cause much trouble in the future. I can not stress enough how important it is for a horse to be relaxed about the canter and have addressed this in several previous letters that I suggest you read. This will be doubly important for her now. She will need to regain confidence in the rider. Along with this she must gain respect as well. I must agree with your husband here, you can baby a horse too much. Firm "love" is needed with firm correction, not abuse, when necessary. Forget about the canter for a while until she is doing all the other gaits willingly and well and then carefully re introduce her to it. Excellent balance, willingness to give firm correction, excellent timing and much patience will be needed to correct this behavior. There is no room for mistakes on the rider's part at this juncture. This is a critical time.

I hope this may help you, I wish there was a "quick fix" but there is not. I look forward to reading of your successful progress in my Guest Book. Thanks again for your letter, Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery

Hello and thank you so much for this forum. A wonderful way for an aot to get some much needed advice from a well respected trainer. Here is my situation:

I have an 11 year SBR gelding that is a former five gaited horse that was once shown by Redd Crabtree and Dave Becker. He spent a few years on the show circuit and then went through Tattersalls and on to the Amish for a couple of years. I fostered him last August and then fell in love with him and adopted him in December of last year. When he first came to me, he was thin and had little muscle mass and tone. The first order of the day was to get him fattened up, teeth fixed and sound (he broke out with a lot of abscesses during this time). He was not ridden obviously during the first few months and this ended up being a good time to get to know him. When I first got him, he had zero personality and just stood stock still the minute a human touched him, fed him or came into his space. It was very very sad. As I spent several hours a day with him over the next few months, he blossomed and now actually "talks" to me when I come up and discovered that treats are the best ever.

When I was able to ride him, I discovered that he was extremely willing, kind and pretty talented. I worked him up from trotting and walking nicely to trying the canter as he muscled up. Right lead was never an issue, but for the longest time this horse wouldn't/couldn't pick up the left lead, but he'd just trot like a bat out of hell. The more I asked, the more anxious he became. He did this in the round pen as well. I also discovered that "something was still a bit off" and he was stiff behind, but nothing was discernible to my eye. I had him checked by the vet and an issue was actually discovered up on the right front pastern and that was blocked, checked and injected. Still, something was off. I loaded him up to go see a well respected lameness standard-bred racetrack vet that is very well known in that industry and he now does strictly chiropractic work on horses. He looked at him and immediately said, "this horse has fractured his left hip at some point when he was very young". It was obviously (once pointed out to me) that the left hip was "pushed" farther back a few inched than the right and there was a hard bony callus. This was why he was so stiff and tight on the left hind end. I told the vet that I had finally gotten the horse to canter on the left lead, but it usually takes several tries before he does it. The horse was adjusted and I'm given exercises to strengthen him and supple up his back end.

My horse will pick up the left lead and more often than not, he's getting it by at least the second attempt. He's sound and not in pain, teeth are not an issue. What is concerning me at the moment with this left lead is that when he gets it wrong, I very calmly try to stop him and try again, but he is extremely anxious about this and gets very uptight and anticipatory. He'll sort of leap into it. I've been told that I should just counter-canter him to the left when he is on the right lead every time he picks up the right lead instead of the left and that he'd eventually figure out that it is more uncomfortable to counter canter than to just pick up the left lead on the straight away. I just want to make sure that I make this endeavor as comfortable and nice as possible. While this horse is an absolute dream to ride and be around (super star on trails with deer, dogs, quail under the legs, ect...), he is anxious as all get out if he "thinks" he's going to get into trouble by doing something wrong. I've had to make sure that my corrections are very slow and calm or he just worries and frets to death. I don't even ride with a crop or spurs with this guy. He is going to be a country pleasure horse (will flat walk fine except when he gets upset about the left lead). What would you suggest I do with this horse? He has his own private paddock and run-in shed so he stays out 24/7. This is a lovely horse and the most incredible horse I've ever owned. Once we can get him back to the show ring, he'll be great in country pleasure. Thank you for taking the time to read my novel and I look forward to your response. Thank you.

Thank you for your nice E-mail. It did read a little like a novel so I read it cover to cover and I couldn't put it down. Your horse has quite a history and it seems he has landed in a very wonderful place. I can't say enough good about people who rescue American Saddlebreds. Not only have you gotten him off the road, fattened him up, "fixed "his teeth gotten him sound, you have done something I've never been able to do...You taught him to talk. Have you ever asked him why he is having trouble with the canter? Let's talk about your canter issue.

It was very wise of to seek out help from veterinaries and a chiropractor as ninety percent of the time we should look to soundness or a mechanical problem for the type of canter issue you describe. Usually, if you are having trouble with starting the left lead, you would look to the bearing leg, the right hind, for unsoundness. However, if you have a "knocked down" or fractured left hip that has calcified, it can easily interfere with the lateral mechanics of the left lead thus causing this behavior.

If we can assume that your veterinary and the "man with the X-ray eyes" are correct that it is no longer a soundness problem and you have since cantered on the left lead, we may now be dealing with a habit. In that case, stopping him is rewarding an incorrect behavior. As you have deftly discerned, asking him to canter again aggravates him. I think you have gotten good advice, given the situation, and so long as he is not running and you have a proper place to do it, I would encourage you to continue on the wrong lead around and around in a circle until he realizes it is much more comfortable on the correct lead. Do not do this in a punishing or "YA...HOO" way but quietly and relaxed as possible. When he does pick up the left lead from the start reward him by cantering a shorter distance, stopping easily, and having him stand and relax as you pet him or the two of you have a nice conversation.

Thanks again for you question. I hope this will be of some help to you.

Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery

Dear Lonnie,

I have a maiden mare I have been trying to get in foal. Her registered name is Callaway's California Dreamer. She foundered last year and she is still popping absesses and occassionally I have to put her on bute to help her around. I have had her in twice to be bred and she still has not taken. I purchased a breeding to a Kentucky Stallion through the Texas Futurity. I'm wondering if it would be better to try and breed her to a stallion here so I would not have to worry about "frozen" semen. I am friends with a local breeder and I am wondering if for the first year out it might be better to try it without "freezing". They do not breed their stalion live cover because he is older and they do not want to take a chance. From your experience should I wait? Should I maybe try this stallion here? Or just go for the Kentucky stud again? Thanks! this is a great website.

Thank you so much for your question. Ever since the advent of Frozen Semen, the questions, misconceptions, facts and fantasies about the process have become a muddled mess. Many breeder's are still somewhat hostile about it, but I feel the most distressed for the mares and stallions. Look at the fun they are missing as the stallions have to date a "dummy" while the mares must turn to the vet for intimacy! Seriously, I am afraid I have the answer to your question but before that let's talk about breeding methods.

Ninety Nine percent of the time the best "cover" for a mare hard to get in foal is a "live, natural, pasture cover". Here humans are taken out of the loop. Nature takes it's course and the stallion and the mare determine exactly when the best time to breed is. The good points: no shipping bills, no vet expense, no temperature taking, no teasing pony, no bandages, no buckets of water, no trips to the airport. The downside, injury very possible.

Live cover. This is second best. The semen is fresh and the mare is either covered or not..no conjecture. Downside, need three men and a boy, most of the stuff that I included on the "good" list. Injury is not ruled out. If your mare is not in season or ovulating, everybody is wasting their time!

A. I. The stallion is onsite, may have even been introduced to your mare. Semen is fresh but you need most of things I mentioned above.

If your mare is not in season or ovulating, everybody is wasting their time!

Frozen semen (and straws) Studs either ship well or they do not. Contrary to popular thinking, the motility of properly shipped semen from a stud that ships well is virtually no different than any of the methods mentioned above. The key is good packaging, timely shipment and delivery to the mare. You are responsible to insure that your mare is ready to ovulate before the semen is shipped. Because of many "snafus" on the mare owners end concerning timing, breeding stallions are being wasted every breeding season as too many shipments are shipped to mares not ready to breed. Most times the stallion is blamed, accused of not shipping well etc. when the mare that is not ovulating does not get in foal. Oh well, that downside goes to the stud owner.

Frankly, any of these processes should be adequate to get a mare in foal. So I would think with the two options you have, either choice would fine as they are both wonderful horses.

However, it is exceedingly difficult to impregnate a mare that is in the kind of pain and distress that laminitis can cause. This, again, is Nature. In the wild, a mare prevented from running and defending herself by unsoundness and pain, would seldom be considered to carry the herd sire's foal. There are some wonderful Farriers in Texas that specialize in foundered horses. The all time best is Burney Chapman. If you can get your mare distress free, without drugs, you will increase your chances of getting her in foal "100 fold"

I wish I could paint a rosier picture but that is the way I see it. The good points are you have a close friend who is a wonderful trainer and a good veterinarian to help with your "project". I hope you write me next spring so we will know if it is a filly or a colt! Thanks again and Good Luck!

LF Lavery

Mr. Lavery, how awesome to be able to finally find something useful to do with my computer! *smile*. Your website, question/answer forum are the greatest and I thank you for your time and expertise.

I have a rescue saddlebred, approximately 20 years of age, a perfect gentleman in the manners dept, and an all around "people horse".

Somewhere in his past, it is my feeling that he has had some training as he does all three gaits, wears his head well, knows cues etc. He is sound, has good farrier work, up to date with dental exams. The problem I am having is that he will not stand to mount. He simply moves on forward, it's not bad, jiggy, dancing, just a need to move forward, but I do feel it's safer for me if I could do something to encourage him to stand. When my opposite stirrup is held, or someone stands next to his head on the right, he stands perfectly still, so I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I do tell him 'whoa', 'stand', etc. When working with him on the ground, he does stand when asked. When I first rode him, it was apparent that the mounting block was a scary thing, so we went slow. I sat on the block, let him have 'treats' from the block, left him turned out with the block in the arena where he picked it up, moved it around and generally became more comfortable around the scary plastic box. I realize he is older and most likely set in 'his ways', but this can be problematic to an older rider such as myself. I am quiet and gentle with him, take my time tacking him up, tightening up the girth a little at a time, easy with the bridle (gentle bit) and cavesson, no sudden movements all those type things, just generally trying to make for a good experience for him and for me. Do you have any suggestions as to how I might be able to teach him to stand better while mounting? I do ride alone most of the time. Thank you in advance for any help you may be able to offer. If you have addressed this issue in your past responses, my apologies. Oh,I should add this......he is 17+ hh.

Thank you for your question. I usually don't recommend starting with a 20 year old to change a behavior, especially one 17 plus hands, but I guess that is what we are stuck with. It's a TALL order!

Let's begin. You've done a wonderful job of identifying things that might encourage or discourage this behavior. Scared of the mounting block, someone holding the stirrup, and the number one cause of mounting problems......Girth too tight too fast!!!

To be honest, the biggest obstacle we have as far as modifying this behavior is the mounting block. I can well understand the need for it with a horse 17 hands plus. ( even Tom Moore might have needed a "leg up") The problem is the mechanics of mounting with the block. We can't mount in the stall (he would step on it for sure and we don't even want to think what might happen after that!) We can't mount in a corner for the same reason. We can't turn him to the left in a tiny circle, for the same reason. Since you never ridden for the Pony Express we will have to figure something else out.

When you are ready to mount, face him towards a wall about 4 feet away. Holding the bridle in your left hand, lift his head and tap him firmly on his front legs ( not a light tap but not a hard hit) asking him to stretch out while saying "Get Out" in a stern voice. Move to the block and should he move, get down, shake his bits and repeat. Each time he moves repeat the entire process. It is not important that you complete the mounting procedure each time, just that he remains "planted" when you are on the block or when your foot moves towards the stirrup. Eventually he will assume the "stretched out" attitude every time you say "get out". From this position, legs very far in front, he cannot move forward without backing up slightly first and this will work in your favor. Two or three sessions should produce the desired effect but remember to always mount in exactly the same place until waiting for you becomes his new habit.

It would be better if you had a helper at this time, not to hold the horse or your stirrup but to make certain the mounting block is well out of your horse's way after you mount. I cannot stress what a disaster it might be should he step on this block!

I hope I have been of some help. I would recommend wearing oxygen at that height. I look forward to reading of your progress in the Guest Book. Thanks again, Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery

What is your opinon of kimberwick bits? I grew up riding Thoroughbred hunters and along with snaffles, kimberwicks were very commonly used when I was a kid. I've owned a Saddlebred for 13 years now and I use an Uxeter Kimberwick (with the rein slots) on him (he's retired and a pleasure hack-around horse now). I ride on the trails alot and a regular snaffle is just not enough bit for him out there, and the kimberwick (with the reins on the bottom slot) has been working well up to now. He can get pretty wound up and super high headed on the trails and sometimes he will just run through the bit like it's not there. This is a very recent development, and I'm wondering if I should consider switching to a different type of bit. Any thoughts?

Thank you for your question. Although the Kimberwick gets a bad "rap" because of the leverage it can produce, most people refuse to understand that a bit is only as severe as the hands operating it. At thirteen, your guy is probably pretty set in his ways. I'm sure you've had his teeth done recently (every 6 months). I therefore feel you are on the right track using a little "artillery" for control. After all, you are only asking him to enjoy a trail ride with you.

When you speak of "super high headed" and "run through the bridle" however, behaviors like this can take all the pleasure out of a trail ride and frankly, put your safety in jeopardy. Losing your power steering and brakes can make for disaster on the trail. A head too high or "buried" too low, can set up these conditions as the horse is virtually proceeding "blindly".

It sounds as if you might benefit from a bit change and a running martingale if only for a short time while dealing with his issues. Try a twisted snaffle, a hog back, or a smooth until you find one that you both enjoy. On the trails it is imperative that the martingale be out of the way from branches etc. so make certain a strap is affixed to the rings and around his neck. I would also recommend "ring stops" on your reins so the martingale cannot catch on the bit. DO NOT USE A STANDING MARTINGALE ON TRAILS! If ever off balance, it is necessary for a horse to have freedom to move his head to maintain his balance and stay on his feet. Standing martingales or tie downs do not permit this.

I hope I have been of some help and I thank you again for your question. I look forward to reading of your great trail rides, in my guest book. Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery

First: I love the website! What an amazing idea and you give FABULOUS advice!

Second, I have two young Saddlebreds that I got last year. One is eligible for the 3 year old All American Cup class in September, but I don't think that he's cut out for the saddle seat world. The other has no papers, but is very flashy, snorty, and full of herself (oh, the irony). I'm getting ready to start them both and see what happens from there. I plan on going the AOT route (I just had a baby and money's tight!) so it should be fairly interesting. I started working with them last year shortly after I got them and ended up with a sprained knee because the filly tried to run through the gate to get to my gelding - they've always been together. We have a small arena and two pastures (one large, one small), and the horses can see one another whether they're in the arena or either of the pastures. It makes it difficult to keep them focused. How do I break this habit so I can get them to actually work for me, without being so distracted by the other horses?

Thank you so much for your kind compliment and question and congratulations on the your new rider.

Horses are "herd animals". In the wild they run in groups depending on each other and the herd's Stallion for security, safety and guidance. What you are dealing with in the behavior you describe is nearly the same as weaning a colt from the mare with the exception the colt is pretty much independent except for the "lunch box" so this transition is relatively easy when the food becomes the substitute for Mom's milk. Your two, however, obviously have bonded in such a way as to depend upon each other at all times, as if they were in a herd. This is not a bad behavior but an inherited trait. You need to start treating them as individuals rather than a pair. In this manner each will come to depend on you rather than each other. To change this behavior, they must be separated 24 hours a day. That means, at the minimum, out of sight. (Out of hearing and smell range as well, would be better). I doubt you can accomplish this in paddocks. If you cannot physically accomplish this at your place, perhaps you have a friend or a boarding stable where you could place one horse for 30 days. I wish I could have more ideas or been of more help but I'm afraid there is not much else you can do to deal with this issue. Thanks again for your question and please keep me posted of your progress, in my guest book. Good Luck and Good Riding,

LF Lavery

I am retraining a little Morgan who had quite a rap sheet, runaway at the canter balking stubborn little horse. We have gotten him over the past two years time mannerly, good in the snaffle bridle, a wonderful slow little canter and going forward. Now it is D day and time for curb bit as the owner would like to show this horse. He has a poor habit left over from his former education or lack of. He grabs the shank of his curb bit on the left side and pulls it is his mouth. I have raised the curb bit and used shoe string to make a chin chain for better balance. His teeth have been done on a regular basis since I have had him . I am addressing his unstable hind end and lack of flat walk. He jigs behind. He does not relax at the walk , going hand and hand I assume with his lack of education, respect for the curb bit or fear of it. This horse is quite the bully when he asked to do anything new. I am working with the vet to help his back end medically, and I long line on the side of a knoll to help strengthen him and I jog him. I have him so much better in a year that I would dare to pat myself on the back, except for the tale the wearing of the curb bit and the grabbing the shank tells. I was taught you teach them to wear the snaffle and get them sweet and responsive to any request, then the curb should be an easy transition. I feel I need some sage advise. Here is how I am trying to correct the problem presently. I was very 'nice " in my methods over the last two years and that got us a long way. However, I realized to truly get past his worst habit I need to be a bit more aggressive My blacksmith made me a "Christianizer" bridle out of an old gag snaffle we had around here and formed it into a gag curb bit type of thing. He said this came from Ronnie Graham . At any rate, I have been long lining in this and I am amazed how it is helping. At first he was mad as a wet hen but now he is starting to say Uncle. This horse seems like he may find religion after all. My question is what type of curb bit would you use or is there something else I can do to prevent this curb shank grabbing ? I assume the horse was never taught to respect his bridle and from seeing how he was ridden prior, no respect was shown to the horse, no give and take. So I assume he learned to defend in this way? BTW, you are myhero.

Thank you for your question, although I am not sure why you are asking me. Wow, I have the feeling I should be asking you. Your grasp of this issue is extraordinary. After reading your description, I believe you truly exemplify the spirit of my ATTO slogan, " A well trained horse is not an accident, rather the product of many thoughtful hours". It is good to see someone covering all the bases when dealing with a problem, identifying and treating unsoundness, changing your training program, using varied tools, not being too proud to ask advice and, of course, knowing you cannot make a 30 day fix. I am certain I could not recommend a more thorough or efficient program for dealing with this horse's issues. Although, many clients sort of take for granted how much time, effort and thought a trainer expends on their horse, I hope your client appreciates what wonderful hands she has placed her horse in.

To the behavior. I a familiar with Ronnie's very clever bit and even remember the horse he originally made it for. (Ronnie showed in it)

Since I can't improve on your program, I will just tell you what I have done in the past.

Depending on the horse's mouth, I would drop the bit rather than raising it.

I have always liked slip shank bits because of the movement. Your horse would be hard pressed to move his lips while his tongue is moving the port. ( I sometimes would tie the tongue to the port to insure this movement )

A curb the width of those now used by Friesian horses, with a lot of "sealtex" filling the gap at the corners, will increase the distance the lip must go.

A large and sharp bit burr can make it uncomfortable for him to be "Lippy"

A cayenne pepper, kerosene and anchovy paste mixture spread on the shanks will sometimes discourage this behavior.

If your stalls are smooth with no tailboards or any place he could get hung up, you might try tying a very short shank Thom Thumb into his halter with no curb chain but much sealtex where the corners of his mouth are so it maintains it's position. (you should remove the water bucket and carry water to him) Let him eat, drink and sleep with it for a few days. When he is eating his grain he will find it more efficient to use his lips for other purposes. This behavior is somewhat a novelty for him as he only does it when you work him. Some of this novelty might wear off after 24 hours a day.

I wish I could be of more help but as I mentioned, you have most of the bases covered. Please send reports of your progress to my Guest book as I really would like to here how you are doing. I wish you Good Luck and Good Riding.

L F Lavery

I have had an SBR saddlebred mare for over a year and we have surely bonded. I knew very little about horses before we got her. She is 12 yrs old and came straight from an Amish farm where the children rode her. She is in good shape and is becoming a nice lesson horse. I sometimes ride bareback with a halter and reins. Yesterday I just sat on her while my husband held the leadline she grazed. My question is, will that lead her to stopping to graze when she wants to while she is being ridden out of doors? I don't know that it matters but I am 66 years old.

Thank you for your letter. I must start by saying how much I feel we in the horse business owe those of you who are involved in American Saddlebred Rescue. I think this is a wonderful, unselfish and very noble organization serving a very real need. I salute you.

Now we will talk about this horrible behavior that might manifest itself. I probably would not recommend your husband leading the mare on a "picnic" while you ride as an every day diversion. Yes, it could very well promote a lack of respect about grazing when you are riding. However, even iwith your advanced years (66 is the new 45) it is something you can easily correct with a bridle. Additionally, the qualitative time you and your husband are spending together far outweighs any bad effects from your behavior. So my recommendation is enjoy your husband and your mare. You really do not need my help.

Good luck and Good Grazing!

LF Lavery

Thank you for your question. When she was a broodmare, were the offspring called "Saddlelips"? I couldn't resist!

To begin, your concern for your horse's well being and your realization of the damage that can be done by bits is wonderful. I am somewhat surprised but also thrilled that many of my inquiries come from people like you with such a great grasp of all things equine. Let's start with the Lipizzan breed.

These beautiful white chargers with the athletic ability to do the "Airs Above Ground" surprisingly trace their roots to Draft animals. Their mouths have a draft construction, size and ability to lean on a bit. They are of a truly different makeup and mind set than an American Saddlebred or an Arabian horse. In Vienna, during the training program, they actually are "bitted" to the Pillars and driven forward to step to the bridle. They must take this type of hold to have the support to execute maneuvers such as the Capriole where the front feet are folded and the hind feet kick straight out as the horse is nearly four feet off the ground. (to be honest I've had a couple that could do this with no training) So, your mare's heritage makes her no stranger to being on the bit.

As I have mentioned several times here, I feel bits are only as severe as the person using them. Therefore, I must be a "Cardinal Sinner "! From your description, it certainly sounds like a more severe bit is called for to insure you have her respect. Used with discretion, a sharper bit is a useful and often times necessary tool From what you have told me, I would recommend that course of action.

I hope I have helped you to better cope with this issue. Please keep me informed of your progress. I wish you Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery

I purchased a five year old a few months ago and he has been really great to work with he has tons of motion and will flat walk or the cute little park trot has a great head set until now comes the part that really throws me when he canters he is really fast and when I try to slow him down that nice head set goes away and he begins to over flex . Should we work him in a smaller ring in hopes that this will slow down the canter? His teeth has been checked and this does not only happen in the double bridle but also in the work bridle the cantering issue with the over flex of the head. In his double bridle he is wearing a smooth cooper snaffle and the curb is medium port and I have wrapped the curb and the chin chain. The work bridle is a mule bit reverse. I am opening and willing to try anything you may offer. Thanks for your time and any suggestions you can give.

Thank you very much for your question. He truly sounds like a wonderful horse walking and trotting etc. Is it imperative that this horse canter? It was just a thought. From your excellent description of your horse's issues, I can tell you are a very good horseperson and you will be capable of following my recommendations.

To begin, as I have said many times before....getting a horse to relax is the key to getting a horse to canter rather than "run slowly". I addressed this at length in an April 30th letter. If you have draw reins or a German martingale...get the Lexol that comes in the yellow bottle and coat all the leather thoroughly. Then very carefully place them in a drawer and shut them in there. Leave them there until this horse meets your expectations. Horses are "flight" animals. Once they are in that mode anything that holds them back, hems them up, or will not yield, becomes the "enemy" and reinforces the flight behavior. Draw reins and German martingales and short running martingales do not yield and they encourage a horse to drop his head, "get the bit in his teeth" and run when he mentally is in the flight mode. Also, until this horse is working perfectly, the double bridle may cleaned and hung up as well.

There is nothing wrong with a mule bit or other sharp bits so long as your hands use them accordingly. A cut tongue, bruised bar, or "burned" corner can truly slow the relaxation process down and set you back a long ways. When using a Mule bit, if the head is set and the reins are nearly loose, you are using it correctly. Once a horse learns to really pull on a mule bit the prognosis isn't pretty. To get your horse to canter more to your liking, I would use less snaffle so he might have a little security and a very long running martingale or no martingale at all so he has nothing to lean on. I would probably not do much trotting but a good deal of walking, bending, twisting and backing. I would ask him to canter as I have previously described. I would not allow him to bury his head nor would I get in a tug of war with him. (always remember when a horse is really pulling on you there must be someone on the other end of the reins pulling on him) This is how I would approach this issue.

There are two other schools of thought to get a horse to canter more slowly and you very astutely picked up on one. Cantering in a small, confined space like a bull ring. This can work with the thought being he doesn't have enough room to get carried away and it is favored by many. Talk about "from the ridiculous to the sublime"! The second is to canter in the largest unconfined area like a large pasture. This can work as well with the logic being to let them run until they start to tire and then start slowing them down. I have used both these methods and have had success with both. Your options are endless.

I hope I have been of some help and please know time and patience will solve your problem. Please keep me posted, I wish you Good Luck and Good Riding.

LFLavery

Mr. Lavery:

Thank you so much for this wonderful resource. As a kid growing up and showing in FL you were always one of our favorite judges- fair and one who seemed to acknowledge the need for manners in CP horses. I sold my gaited horse when I went to college and have been out for awhile. We now live in KY, have our own farm and are getting back into it. My kids (7,4 & 1) love the horses too.

Last winter I purchased a mare, Kodiak Jewel who just turned 10. According to her record she did well as a 3 year old. She is beautiful and a doll on the ground. I have heard some tales about her under saddle and she gets very nervous when the tack comes out. She has had 2 foals (I also bought her 2 year old filly by Rubies & Roses who is wonderful to work with) and been out to pasture for several years. She is purported to have had a hard mouth which I hate. I like light horses and have light hands. My friend's trainer said they had tried a twisted wire snaffle and she spun in circles. It was mentioned about standing in the stirrups to stop her. My friend does teeth yearly. She is sired by Family Jewels and aside from liking their looks I am not familiar with his offspring. She is so wonderful on the ground it is in direct contrast to her behavior when she sees tack. I want to bring her back to show her but want her to be safe and sane. I have lunged her some and she is pretty calm. I lined her once and she did fairly well also using a copper twisted wire snaffle with a key. I would like to know how to accomplish my goal. Do I start all over? She is too nice to be a basket case under saddle. I love a game horse, especially one that can rack but not a nutty horse with a tough mouth. I don't like to ride or see horses on the edge of being out of control- they look so inconsistent. I was not previously familiar with her trainer but from what I have seen his horses all show this way. Fast forward, wild, flashes of great talent but no consistency. She is also very nervous and paces in a stall although I know she was shown from the time she was a 2 year old. I have heard she has been in some not so nice situations. She used to get nervous if she thought I was upset with her. She is getting over this. She is easy to catch, trailer, etc. Thank you for any advice

Thank you so much for your question and the kind comments about my Judging. I can't begin to tell you how thrilled I am to know that I judged you as a small child in Florida and now you are a mother of three! Time flies when you're having fun.

Family Jewels was, or perhaps still is, a wonderful little horse and an excellent breeding stallion. His "Shamrock" bloodlines produced very game, athletic horses and he was a good cross with the Sultan mares. Many of his offspring sported light chestnut coats and pure white manes and tails. I had one called Jewel in the Wind who was a reserve WC twice and may have been the fastest gaited horse I have ever seen, with the exception of Wing Commander. Horses with that kind of gameness and go forward attitude can often be very strong in their bridles.

Trying to read between the lines, most likely something went amiss seven years ago for someone to turn a successful 3-year-old into a Broodmare. I would imagine that the tales you have heard about her probably have a lot of truth to them as evidenced by "she spun in circles. It was mentioned about standing in the stirrups to stop her."

Those two statements, alone, would slow me down considerably and I would probably be quite content that she is "wonderful on the ground and easy to catch."

If, however, you are looking forward to this kind of challenge, I would most definitely start from the beginning. Proceed slowly as your mission should be to gain this mare's complete confidence. A horse such as you describe must learn to depend on you for her guidance or all will be lost. This is quite a project and I applaud your resolve.

In an April 8th post, found elsewhere on this site, I addressed the "stall pacing" problem.

It sounds like you have a good handle on what you want to do and how to do it. As you proceed, please keep me posted on your progress.

I hope I have been of some help, I wish you Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery