What is your opinon of kimberwick bits? I grew up riding Thoroughbred hunters and along with snaffles, kimberwicks were very commonly used when I was a kid. I've owned a Saddlebred for 13 years now and I use an Uxeter Kimberwick (with the rein slots) on him (he's retired and a pleasure hack-around horse now). I ride on the trails alot and a regular snaffle is just not enough bit for him out there, and the kimberwick (with the reins on the bottom slot) has been working well up to now. He can get pretty wound up and super high headed on the trails and sometimes he will just run through the bit like it's not there. This is a very recent development, and I'm wondering if I should consider switching to a different type of bit. Any thoughts?

Thank you for your question. Although the Kimberwick gets a bad "rap" because of the leverage it can produce, most people refuse to understand that a bit is only as severe as the hands operating it. At thirteen, your guy is probably pretty set in his ways. I'm sure you've had his teeth done recently (every 6 months). I therefore feel you are on the right track using a little "artillery" for control. After all, you are only asking him to enjoy a trail ride with you.

When you speak of "super high headed" and "run through the bridle" however, behaviors like this can take all the pleasure out of a trail ride and frankly, put your safety in jeopardy. Losing your power steering and brakes can make for disaster on the trail. A head too high or "buried" too low, can set up these conditions as the horse is virtually proceeding "blindly".

It sounds as if you might benefit from a bit change and a running martingale if only for a short time while dealing with his issues. Try a twisted snaffle, a hog back, or a smooth until you find one that you both enjoy. On the trails it is imperative that the martingale be out of the way from branches etc. so make certain a strap is affixed to the rings and around his neck. I would also recommend "ring stops" on your reins so the martingale cannot catch on the bit. DO NOT USE A STANDING MARTINGALE ON TRAILS! If ever off balance, it is necessary for a horse to have freedom to move his head to maintain his balance and stay on his feet. Standing martingales or tie downs do not permit this.

I hope I have been of some help and I thank you again for your question. I look forward to reading of your great trail rides, in my guest book. Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery

First: I love the website! What an amazing idea and you give FABULOUS advice!

Second, I have two young Saddlebreds that I got last year. One is eligible for the 3 year old All American Cup class in September, but I don't think that he's cut out for the saddle seat world. The other has no papers, but is very flashy, snorty, and full of herself (oh, the irony). I'm getting ready to start them both and see what happens from there. I plan on going the AOT route (I just had a baby and money's tight!) so it should be fairly interesting. I started working with them last year shortly after I got them and ended up with a sprained knee because the filly tried to run through the gate to get to my gelding - they've always been together. We have a small arena and two pastures (one large, one small), and the horses can see one another whether they're in the arena or either of the pastures. It makes it difficult to keep them focused. How do I break this habit so I can get them to actually work for me, without being so distracted by the other horses?

Thank you so much for your kind compliment and question and congratulations on the your new rider.

Horses are "herd animals". In the wild they run in groups depending on each other and the herd's Stallion for security, safety and guidance. What you are dealing with in the behavior you describe is nearly the same as weaning a colt from the mare with the exception the colt is pretty much independent except for the "lunch box" so this transition is relatively easy when the food becomes the substitute for Mom's milk. Your two, however, obviously have bonded in such a way as to depend upon each other at all times, as if they were in a herd. This is not a bad behavior but an inherited trait. You need to start treating them as individuals rather than a pair. In this manner each will come to depend on you rather than each other. To change this behavior, they must be separated 24 hours a day. That means, at the minimum, out of sight. (Out of hearing and smell range as well, would be better). I doubt you can accomplish this in paddocks. If you cannot physically accomplish this at your place, perhaps you have a friend or a boarding stable where you could place one horse for 30 days. I wish I could have more ideas or been of more help but I'm afraid there is not much else you can do to deal with this issue. Thanks again for your question and please keep me posted of your progress, in my guest book. Good Luck and Good Riding,

LF Lavery

I am retraining a little Morgan who had quite a rap sheet, runaway at the canter balking stubborn little horse. We have gotten him over the past two years time mannerly, good in the snaffle bridle, a wonderful slow little canter and going forward. Now it is D day and time for curb bit as the owner would like to show this horse. He has a poor habit left over from his former education or lack of. He grabs the shank of his curb bit on the left side and pulls it is his mouth. I have raised the curb bit and used shoe string to make a chin chain for better balance. His teeth have been done on a regular basis since I have had him . I am addressing his unstable hind end and lack of flat walk. He jigs behind. He does not relax at the walk , going hand and hand I assume with his lack of education, respect for the curb bit or fear of it. This horse is quite the bully when he asked to do anything new. I am working with the vet to help his back end medically, and I long line on the side of a knoll to help strengthen him and I jog him. I have him so much better in a year that I would dare to pat myself on the back, except for the tale the wearing of the curb bit and the grabbing the shank tells. I was taught you teach them to wear the snaffle and get them sweet and responsive to any request, then the curb should be an easy transition. I feel I need some sage advise. Here is how I am trying to correct the problem presently. I was very 'nice " in my methods over the last two years and that got us a long way. However, I realized to truly get past his worst habit I need to be a bit more aggressive My blacksmith made me a "Christianizer" bridle out of an old gag snaffle we had around here and formed it into a gag curb bit type of thing. He said this came from Ronnie Graham . At any rate, I have been long lining in this and I am amazed how it is helping. At first he was mad as a wet hen but now he is starting to say Uncle. This horse seems like he may find religion after all. My question is what type of curb bit would you use or is there something else I can do to prevent this curb shank grabbing ? I assume the horse was never taught to respect his bridle and from seeing how he was ridden prior, no respect was shown to the horse, no give and take. So I assume he learned to defend in this way? BTW, you are myhero.

Thank you for your question, although I am not sure why you are asking me. Wow, I have the feeling I should be asking you. Your grasp of this issue is extraordinary. After reading your description, I believe you truly exemplify the spirit of my ATTO slogan, " A well trained horse is not an accident, rather the product of many thoughtful hours". It is good to see someone covering all the bases when dealing with a problem, identifying and treating unsoundness, changing your training program, using varied tools, not being too proud to ask advice and, of course, knowing you cannot make a 30 day fix. I am certain I could not recommend a more thorough or efficient program for dealing with this horse's issues. Although, many clients sort of take for granted how much time, effort and thought a trainer expends on their horse, I hope your client appreciates what wonderful hands she has placed her horse in.

To the behavior. I a familiar with Ronnie's very clever bit and even remember the horse he originally made it for. (Ronnie showed in it)

Since I can't improve on your program, I will just tell you what I have done in the past.

Depending on the horse's mouth, I would drop the bit rather than raising it.

I have always liked slip shank bits because of the movement. Your horse would be hard pressed to move his lips while his tongue is moving the port. ( I sometimes would tie the tongue to the port to insure this movement )

A curb the width of those now used by Friesian horses, with a lot of "sealtex" filling the gap at the corners, will increase the distance the lip must go.

A large and sharp bit burr can make it uncomfortable for him to be "Lippy"

A cayenne pepper, kerosene and anchovy paste mixture spread on the shanks will sometimes discourage this behavior.

If your stalls are smooth with no tailboards or any place he could get hung up, you might try tying a very short shank Thom Thumb into his halter with no curb chain but much sealtex where the corners of his mouth are so it maintains it's position. (you should remove the water bucket and carry water to him) Let him eat, drink and sleep with it for a few days. When he is eating his grain he will find it more efficient to use his lips for other purposes. This behavior is somewhat a novelty for him as he only does it when you work him. Some of this novelty might wear off after 24 hours a day.

I wish I could be of more help but as I mentioned, you have most of the bases covered. Please send reports of your progress to my Guest book as I really would like to here how you are doing. I wish you Good Luck and Good Riding.

L F Lavery

I have had an SBR saddlebred mare for over a year and we have surely bonded. I knew very little about horses before we got her. She is 12 yrs old and came straight from an Amish farm where the children rode her. She is in good shape and is becoming a nice lesson horse. I sometimes ride bareback with a halter and reins. Yesterday I just sat on her while my husband held the leadline she grazed. My question is, will that lead her to stopping to graze when she wants to while she is being ridden out of doors? I don't know that it matters but I am 66 years old.

Thank you for your letter. I must start by saying how much I feel we in the horse business owe those of you who are involved in Saddlebred Rescue. I think this is a wonderful, unselfish and very noble organization serving a very real need. I salute you.

Now we will talk about this horrible behavior that might manifest itself. I probably would not recommend your husband leading the mare on a "picnic" while you ride as an every day diversion. Yes, it could very well promote a lack of respect about grazing when you are riding. However, even iwith your advanced years (66 is the new 45) it is something you can easily correct with a bridle. Additionally, the qualitative time you and your husband are spending together far outweighs any bad effects from your behavior. So my recommendation is enjoy your husband and your mare. You really do not need my help.

Good luck and Good Grazing!

LF Lavery

Thank you for your question. When she was a broodmare, were the offspring called "Saddlelips"? I couldn't resist!

To begin, your concern for your horse's well being and your realization of the damage that can be done by bits is wonderful. I am somewhat surprised but also thrilled that many of my inquiries come from people like you with such a great grasp of all things equine. Let's start with the Lipizzan breed.

These beautiful white chargers with the athletic ability to do the "Airs Above Ground" surprisingly trace their roots to Draft animals. Their mouths have a draft construction, size and ability to lean on a bit. They are of a truly different makeup and mind set than an American Saddlebred or an Arabian horse. In Vienna, during the training program, they actually are "bitted" to the Pillars and driven forward to step to the bridle. They must take this type of hold to have the support to execute maneuvers such as the Capriole where the front feet are folded and the hind feet kick straight out as the horse is nearly four feet off the ground. (to be honest I've had a couple that could do this with no training) So, your mare's heritage makes her no stranger to being on the bit.

As I have mentioned several times here, I feel bits are only as severe as the person using them. Therefore, I must be a "Cardinal Sinner "! From your description, it certainly sounds like a more severe bit is called for to insure you have her respect. Used with discretion, a sharper bit is a useful and often times necessary tool From what you have told me, I would recommend that course of action.

I hope I have helped you to better cope with this issue. Please keep me informed of your progress. I wish you Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery

I purchased a five year old a few months ago and he has been really great to work with he has tons of motion and will flat walk or the cute little park trot has a great head set until now comes the part that really throws me when he canters he is really fast and when I try to slow him down that nice head set goes away and he begins to over flex . Should we work him in a smaller ring in hopes that this will slow down the canter? His teeth has been checked and this does not only happen in the double bridle but also in the work bridle the cantering issue with the over flex of the head. In his double bridle he is wearing a smooth cooper snaffle and the curb is medium port and I have wrapped the curb and the chin chain. The work bridle is a mule bit reverse. I am opening and willing to try anything you may offer. Thanks for your time and any suggestions you can give.

Thank you very much for your question. He truly sounds like a wonderful horse walking and trotting etc. Is it imperative that this horse canter? It was just a thought. From your excellent description of your horse's issues, I can tell you are a very good horseperson and you will be capable of following my recommendations.

To begin, as I have said many times before....getting a horse to relax is the key to getting a horse to canter rather than "run slowly". I addressed this at length in an April 30th letter. If you have draw reins or a German martingale...get the Lexol that comes in the yellow bottle and coat all the leather thoroughly. Then very carefully place them in a drawer and shut them in there. Leave them there until this horse meets your expectations. Horses are "flight" animals. Once they are in that mode anything that holds them back, hems them up, or will not yield, becomes the "enemy" and reinforces the flight behavior. Draw reins and German martingales and short running martingales do not yield and they encourage a horse to drop his head, "get the bit in his teeth" and run when he mentally is in the flight mode. Also, until this horse is working perfectly, the double bridle may cleaned and hung up as well.

There is nothing wrong with a mule bit or other sharp bits so long as your hands use them accordingly. A cut tongue, bruised bar, or "burned" corner can truly slow the relaxation process down and set you back a long ways. When using a Mule bit, if the head is set and the reins are nearly loose, you are using it correctly. Once a horse learns to really pull on a mule bit the prognosis isn't pretty. To get your horse to canter more to your liking, I would use less snaffle so he might have a little security and a very long running martingale or no martingale at all so he has nothing to lean on. I would probably not do much trotting but a good deal of walking, bending, twisting and backing. I would ask him to canter as I have previously described. I would not allow him to bury his head nor would I get in a tug of war with him. (always remember when a horse is really pulling on you there must be someone on the other end of the reins pulling on him) This is how I would approach this issue.

There are two other schools of thought to get a horse to canter more slowly and you very astutely picked up on one. Cantering in a small, confined space like a bull ring. This can work with the thought being he doesn't have enough room to get carried away and it is favored by many. Talk about "from the ridiculous to the sublime"! The second is to canter in the largest unconfined area like a large pasture. This can work as well with the logic being to let them run until they start to tire and then start slowing them down. I have used both these methods and have had success with both. Your options are endless.

I hope I have been of some help and please know time and patience will solve your problem. Please keep me posted, I wish you Good Luck and Good Riding.

LFLavery

Mr. Lavery:

Thank you so much for this wonderful resource. As a kid growing up and showing in FL you were always one of our favorite judges- fair and one who seemed to acknowledge the need for manners in CP horses. I sold my gaited horse when I went to college and have been out for awhile. We now live in KY, have our own farm and are getting back into it. My kids (7,4 & 1) love the horses too.

Last winter I purchased a mare, Kodiak Jewel who just turned 10. According to her record she did well as a 3 year old. She is beautiful and a doll on the ground. I have heard some tales about her under saddle and she gets very nervous when the tack comes out. She has had 2 foals (I also bought her 2 year old filly by Rubies & Roses who is wonderful to work with) and been out to pasture for several years. She is purported to have had a hard mouth which I hate. I like light horses and have light hands. My friend's trainer said they had tried a twisted wire snaffle and she spun in circles. It was mentioned about standing in the stirrups to stop her. My friend does teeth yearly. She is sired by Family Jewels and aside from liking their looks I am not familiar with his offspring. She is so wonderful on the ground it is in direct contrast to her behavior when she sees tack. I want to bring her back to show her but want her to be safe and sane. I have lunged her some and she is pretty calm. I lined her once and she did fairly well also using a copper twisted wire snaffle with a key. I would like to know how to accomplish my goal. Do I start all over? She is too nice to be a basket case under saddle. I love a game horse, especially one that can rack but not a nutty horse with a tough mouth. I don't like to ride or see horses on the edge of being out of control- they look so inconsistent. I was not previously familiar with her trainer but from what I have seen his horses all show this way. Fast forward, wild, flashes of great talent but no consistency. She is also very nervous and paces in a stall although I know she was shown from the time she was a 2 year old. I have heard she has been in some not so nice situations. She used to get nervous if she thought I was upset with her. She is getting over this. She is easy to catch, trailer, etc. Thank you for any advice

Thank you so much for your question and the kind comments about my Judging. I can't begin to tell you how thrilled I am to know that I judged you as a small child in Florida and now you are a mother of three! Time flies when you're having fun.

Family Jewels was, or perhaps still is, a wonderful little horse and an excellent breeding stallion. His "Shamrock" bloodlines produced very game, athletic horses and he was a good cross with the Sultan mares. Many of his offspring sported light chestnut coats and pure white manes and tails. I had one called Jewel in the Wind who was a reserve WC twice and may have been the fastest gaited horse I have ever seen, with the exception of Wing Commander. Horses with that kind of gameness and go forward attitude can often be very strong in their bridles.

Trying to read between the lines, most likely something went amiss seven years ago for someone to turn a successful 3-year-old into a Broodmare. I would imagine that the tales you have heard about her probably have a lot of truth to them as evidenced by "she spun in circles. It was mentioned about standing in the stirrups to stop her."

Those two statements, alone, would slow me down considerably and I would probably be quite content that she is "wonderful on the ground and easy to catch."

If, however, you are looking forward to this kind of challenge, I would most definitely start from the beginning. Proceed slowly as your mission should be to gain this mare's complete confidence. A horse such as you describe must learn to depend on you for her guidance or all will be lost. This is quite a project and I applaud your resolve.

In an April 8th post, found elsewhere on this site, I addressed the "stall pacing" problem.

It sounds like you have a good handle on what you want to do and how to do it. As you proceed, please keep me posted on your progress.

I hope I have been of some help, I wish you Good Luck and Good Riding.

LF Lavery